Other than our local general SF con, CONduit, I really only went to gaming specific conventions (Camarilla or GENcon) and the San Diego Comicon. Having dropped the Camarilla as an option, I've been using that money and time for filk and general SF cons. I never knew what I was missing, until I started doing that. Other conventions are so vibrant and active!
CONduit is slowly killing itself. They are aiming more solidly at being an writers' con and less at being a fan's con. This is fine, but they need to stop billing themselves as a general SF con. Perhaps a weekend long SF oriented writers' workshop might be better.
As a reader, I love literature. It isn't automatically a superior art form. Excellent, thought provoking stories are exhibited on the written page, in film and in music. They are all equally valid art forms. The people who create such things are not equally valid. Self-published does not automatically make one an author. Ask most fan fiction writes about that one. Self-published lands you in the same category as self-made films. Some of these things take off, most do not. The self-published, local author should not automatically be treated any better than the self-produced local filmmaker or the self-produced local musician.
When I first started attending CONduit there was a vibrant fan club scene, hall costumes were the norm, gaming was active and all over the con space, the dealer's room was full of interesting offerings, and filk was a cherished part of the convention. Over the years the fan clubs have been driven or dropped out. Gaming and filk are usually treated like the convention's red headed step children. Hall costumes are the exception, not the rule... and they are frequently the same ones you saw the year before.
The general age of attendees is getting older. The only young people regularly seen are the children or grandchildren of older attendees. Also, the majority of the organizing committee comes from a very specific cultural group. The majority of the Salt Lake Valley and Salt Lake Valley Fandom are no longer a part of that cultural group. This shift in population has yet to be truly dealt with by the convention.
The younger people are leaving town for other conventions or saving their money for conventions at other times of the year. The conventions they attend are ones where they can actually party (Yes, this sometimes means booze.), cosplay in the halls (Yikes, racier clothing than is accepted in a G rated film!), and see the things that they are truly interested in. The young people are much more interested in media than they are into literature. Think movies, anime, video games, tv shows, etc.
How this year's CONduit goes will determine if I join the younger people. Do I really have fun, or am I just going through the motions. If I find that I'm just going through the motions, I will spend my money elsewhere. Voting with my voice has rarely worked, so I will vote with my feet and my dollars.
So say we all!
ReplyDeleteSad but true. I've been to almost every con ever put on in SLC (I missed a few of the KarlCons), and was on concom for the VERY first con ever held in SLC. And I have to admit you are right. I long since stopped being a member of concom due to health and other reasons, but that doesn't mean I can't see that CONduit stagnated some years back. I've attended Anime Banzai. Ten times the attendance of CONduit, even when it moved 40 miles north of SLC. The attendees are mostly young, have money, make incredible costumes, and have a blast. If CONduit wants to survive, these are the people they need to be attracting. And they aren't.
ReplyDeleteI am in agreement. I have been a willing participant of Conduit for nearly two decades now, but I feel the fire has died and I don't see any signs of it being rekindled. This year will be the crux for me as well. Just because something has become tradition does not mean it is worth keeping.
ReplyDeleteAs the wise of the world have learned all things must either evolve or die.
ReplyDeleteIn filk, this very reason is why I personally champion young filkers filking about things young filkers know. MMOs, recent movies, recent literature, FPSes, Parodying pop culture music or writing their own music in the stylistic genere of pop/heavymetal/rap etc.
What does this have to do with CONduit?
Everything. The way that great traditions are kept is by teaching them to the youth and making them beloved of the youth. Why Do ancient Christmas traditions survive for instance? It's because we grow up with the holiday being fun, something we're interested in and magical for us as kids, we in turn take that, change it to fit our own styles/the times and teach it to our kids.
An example of the evolution...Tradition: Gift giving. We give our kids gaming consoles now, 20 years ago lite-brites and boom boxes. My great grandmother got tin cars, and wooden rocking horses. The idea of games like Secret Santa or Gift draws was foreign to her even though she lived in the Great Depression. The tradition of gift giving didn't change but what was given and how it was done did.
Similarly the tradition of the Sci-Fi con, or even using some traditional Con elements doesn’t have to go away as long as it evolves.
Imagine if we tried giving modern kids rocking horses now? Imagine if we were the only house on the block who still decorated the tree with just popcorn strings like great grandma did? When the kid went to school and talked to their friends and saw the lights and toys and modern gifts outside the home, suddenly the Old ways of great Grandma look much less exciting and appealing. – Likewise, when a convention does “what worked” 20 years earlier every year it slowly becomes the popcorn tree and the younger more energetic folks with new ideas are looking at other more modern less rigid conventions
Now this isn't meant to open a can of worms on Christmas traditions It's just an example. Just as most folks aren't getting their teenagers wooden horses, a Convention can't expect to give their patrons the same content over and over and over. What worked 20 years go, doesn't still work. The last 20 years have seen a technological and pop culture explosion.
ReplyDeleteWhereas 20 – 30 years ago home computers were still kind of a new thing now most homes have 2-4 per household. Phones can get on the internet; four year-old children can navigate Netflix. Info, music, media, gaming and all things fanish have been completely revolutionized and become much more mainstream. The typical “gamer” now isn’t a zitfaced skinny basement dweller who rolls dice and reads books. He runs a Raid guild on W.O.W and works in Middle management or is in college, and sometimes is the captain of the Highschool Football team as well. He watches movies like Lord of the Rings. He dreams big and his world is very small because with a simple blog he’s suddenly a “published author” and with a little knowhow and a little buzz may get more exposure and readership then most frustrated/budding novelists following old forms will get in a career.- This is the new demographic and just like anything else if you want to sell to them, you need to sell what they want.
Is bringing in new guests, handing the reigns of organization and leadership to younger more energetic hands a risk? Absolutely. But it is with that risk that development and progress will occur. When the con makes the changes it needs to make to attract the younger blood in the first place, they can get people excited about it... again the kid at Christmas. Once those Kids fall in love they will be excited to participate, from there it's easy.
One of our ConCom members earlier this year said "there was so much energy at anime banzi I wish we could bottle that and bring it to Conduit."
The way you do that is to channel the energies and interest of the PEOPLE. You attract people by giving them what they’re interested in. If you attract the people who are passionate, the young people, the people who start and nurture fan clubs ( cuz believe me that takes a TON of energy and passion to do) they will bring their ideas and their energy with them and give of it freely.
After that, the next step is to WELCOME AND EMBRACE the new ideas. The new ideas may seem risky, odd, frightening, even downright silly to old guard organizers but the new ideas are what will KEEP the people with the ideas and the energy coming and more importantly STAYING.
If these individuals are shunned, shut out, told their ideas won't work because "it didn't work before" or because "it's too risky" or “this isn't the way it's done" then they will take their ideas elsewhere to places that those ideas will get heard and where their creativity can flourish. If their interests are shut into a closet, ignored or given slivers of focus in comparison to more traditional agendas they’ll recognize that they are the “token”. They will feel their work and effort is unappreciated and will go elsewhere. Energy needs to flow to grow and all the good energy in the world will do nothing if it's bottled up, shut down, clipped or squashed.
The thing is… And this goes for filk as well as Con. Once you have someone’s love they are more amiable to learning old traditions, if folks have only a passing interest and old traditions get forced down their throats they will rebel or resent them. Hook the new and passionate by giving them their own interests. Give them their time and their due, Be excited about the changes they make. Then and only then can you hope to keep them and rekindle the older traditions.
The crux of the thing is, the world has changed It’s breathing a whole new air now and if we stay in our comfortable mud puddle it will dry up and suffocate us.
the first two conduits i attended were fun but after that i felt out of place and unwanted. i've considered going back over the last few years but have just not cared enough to attend
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a 14 year old basement dweller; the whole conservative, Mormon, literary nerd culture was great fun. It fed my mind and soul in a way that the anti-intellectual, fly-over country culture of my home town never did. Now that I've seen the world and have evolved as a person, it is not even close to enough. I realize that what is called a PG-13 convention, is really a G rated convention in the rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteAdd this to the stagnation factors above and you have something very unappealing to the majority of fandom.
lilalexei: Basically you are correct. Conduit needs to decide what it wants to be. Most of the friends I talk to see it currently as a literary-only writing workshop with whispers of other interests in an attempt to get more attendance. When it it brought up that the con has pigeonholed itself into this format, the only protest is "come to our concom meetings and change it" We have tried to help before, and were shunned or worse. If Conduit wants to be just a literary con, that is fine. Just don't throw on Jedi robes and try to trick us into thinking you are something that you are not.
ReplyDeleteladydawnya: I love this quote "The way you do that is to channel the energies and interest of the PEOPLE." I've been trying to tell the Conduit ConCom this for years. Yes I'm a major Star Trek club geek. And I'm involved in a bunch of other clubs as well. What I want from a con is several things. Meet fans of common interests. See things that I normally can't see outside of a con (it could be a guest, a presentation, a rare film, a display, etc.). And learn something new about one of my many fandom interests. Even in my ST group we have writing groups, readers, artists, costumers and more. Yet outside of 3-5 people (of about 150+), there is zero interest in Conduit. Especially when we look at the guests and say "Who???"
After the first couple of Mountain-Cons, a Conduit person walked up to me and said "Now we know what you want, and we realize that we can't give it to you." That wasn't the reason we attempted to run a con nor was it what we wanted to hear. We just wanted to show it could be done with other con interests. Our focus is in our family we call our Star Trek club, not running a convention. It is dang hard to run a con. We can help and make suggestions (if they are used) but we can't run it for you.
I really found this blog (and the comments) informative. It also makes me feel that I'm not the only one who's been banging my head against the wall when trying to discuss Conduit.
Here's my convention wish list:
ReplyDelete1. Thriving gaming scene; not just pre-reg games, but active open gaming.
2. Cosplay everywhere!!
3. Panels about the media I am a fan of; Star Wars, Dr. Who, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, No Ordinary Family, etc.
4. Open filk any time of day, not just the middle of the night.
5. Con games for everyone; scavenger hunts, assassin, etc.
6. Social interaction activities; a dance, three legged races, nerd karaoke, etc.
7. Adults only panels and activities in addition to a kids con.
8. Guests that I actually am a fan of; I'd be happy with an author I actually read.
9. Thriving room party scene fueled by active fan club involvement.
10. Fewer pretentious struggling self-published authors who's stuff is worse than the fan fiction I read.
I know... too much to ask for, but one can always wish.
I say a thousand times AMEN, Erin. This is exactly why Eddy ran last Summer for Programming Chair, trying DESPERATELY to revolutionize and force some new life into CONduit. But he got defeated by someone who brought in not only the satus quo, but a bunch of new faces to bulk up votes for themself, and Eddy and I (and to some extent, Brad and Tamara) walked away.
ReplyDeleteCONduit had some of its biggest years ever when gaming brought in RPGA events, those 2-3 years brought in people from all over the West and even Canada, and despite what many people said at the time, many of those gamers DID visit the rest of the con (most of them found it boring because there wasn't much to interest them, but they did look around). There are plenty of similar, and even revolutionary, gaming things going on, we just have to get someone to be willing to let them in!
Know what I want to see at a local con? THIS! (ArcAttack):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdrqdW4Miao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BukhTxtnZT4&NR=1
THAT's the type of stuff I want to see at a con, but we don't have the money to travel to any that are this cool. I want to bring stuff like this here!
Erin, you need to chat with Eddy, Brad, Tamara and I sometime, Carl, you should prob. give us a call too. We've been watching CONduit slowly die for years and have tried SO hard to revolutionize it, but there has always, and probably will always be, those few people who have been involved for 20+ years who don't want to change, and us "younger crowd" (or young at heart) have to either stage a coup, or try again to start our own con.
@Stephanie: Been there, done that. All it takes is one jackass to screw it up for everybody.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting hearing the timely echoes of our sentiments being repeated here. I just hope that the repetition hits the ears that need to hear.
Part 1: IDIC Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combination These words are not just Vulcan Philosophy. They seem to over arch and under gird almost all the Star Trek Universe. First off I want to state that I do believe I understand where you are coming from and perhaps even why you feel the way you wrote but in my mind I have to ask a simple question: Why are people not celebrating what ConDuit is rather than complaining and worrying about what it is not?
ReplyDeleteConDuit has chosen the niche it wants to fill. It is, at least in my mind, above all things a 'Creative Con” not only for writing but for art, filking, costuming, armor making, world creation and so much more. It is not a media con, it is not an anime con or any other kind of con yet it encompasses each and every one of these on a creative level. We have a great anime con, we have wonderful events celebrating storytelling, Renaissance and many more. We had, and hope to have again, a great media con and in many of these areas members of those planning committees also are part of the ConDuit ConCom and they find no conflict at all. I do not know a single media, anime, medieval, horror, game, historic etc. etc. convention goer who would not benefit from (A) Learning the creative process to see how their favorite show, movie, fan fiction, book, comic etc. is made. (B) Rubbing shoulders with a broad range of fans in different areas then their primary area of interest ((C)) Participating in or giving presentations of their favorite genre. (D) Listening to artists and writers who have 'made it' and who are giving the con goer the benefit of their experience, how they were published etc. (E) Joining their fellow fans in games, contests, masquerades, swap meets, socials etc. Yes I truly believe anyone could and would benefit in at least one if not all of those ways by attending ConDuit.
I also do not understand why the various factions/groups/clubs etc. cannot get together. Would it not be to the advantage of every fan in Utah for a Media con, a 'Creative' con, and perhaps other somehow find a way to Unite on the same day. I could see two groups, working in tandem, one on the media and other on the creative side, setting a con on the same day, splitting the cost, sharing the expertise and so much more.. To be sure it might take some compromise and I think the only absolute ConDuit has is “no speaking fees” but we have allowed tables for guests to sell autographs etc. Can you imagine the dealers room when the dealers do not have to choose which con to go to?
If the clubs would stop this 'ConDuit is getting old', ConDuit is dying, etc. etc. rhetoric and start accepting ConDuit for what it is or is trying to be and THEN start working toward joint ventures where the fans would not have to choose and I believe, in my 'Polly Ann-ish' way that EVERY fan would benefit and we could have the best in the west. The divisiveness has got to stop and as Fan Club Liaison for ConDuit they are well aware of my feelings in this area and if they are not they have not been listening. I have been involved in ConDuit for all of its years.. The first 10 or so years (after year one) I ran the dealers room, I started the swap meet, and I have made a difference in the Hall Costume etc. (I have even been a Costume Judge twice at Mountain Con so I am well qualified to say we have done a lot with costumes).
Part 2: ConDuit is what it is.. Celebrate it for what it is. Attend it for what it is and help it grow. As I have said, I have been involved in ConDuit since year one, I know how strong the personalities are who have been involved from the get go (without that strength we would have NO cons in Utah so give credit where credit is due..even their mistakes inspired change and fans to CREATE new options..after all it is a CREATIVE CON!) So once again I invite all of you to join in, participate and unite. The fans are not benefiting, at all, from this schism (perceived or real) that this blog and subsequent comments presented to my interpretation. And if you do not want to go..that is always your choice but do not do others the disservice of discouraging them from attending. I must also add that those who are in leadership, those who are looked to as pillars in the Trek community should lead by uniting the fans of Utah for this is the true spirit of IDIC.
ReplyDeleteCarl, I really do hope you keep coming.. and I hope the reasons and perspective that I have tried to present have an affect. I am concerned with some of the replys to your blog and I hope that together we can as clubs, organizations and individuals bring back the vibance you and others say is lacking and I am afraid the schism I mentioned (real or perceived) is part of the problem.. people have got to go with the attitude of I am going to make this the best experience for myself and others that I can and not 'okay prove yourself to me'.
Finally, Thank you for your time reading this. I hope it is taken in the spirit it is meant and I have a lot of respect and time for each of those who have participated in this blog and subsequent responses as well as the leadership of the 7th Fleet and other clubs and groups in Utah without you all fandom and fandom opportunities in Utah would be greatly reduced. I agree there is room for improvement and that ConDuit is not perfect and I agree that some of the reasons involve the personalities in various leadership positions but there are two sides to that coin as well.. strong personalities do not always agree. I just hope we can, none-the-less come together for the mutual benefit of Utah Fandom. And lastly I ask of some of you; “If you can't endorse it PLEASE, at least, do not dismiss or diminish it.”
I'd like to see something like this at a local con.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL2M_P01Cv8
Fans in costume (and lots of quality costumes to boot), fans having fun (look at the smiles everywhere), fans getting a chance to put their hands on stuff (panels and demonstrations), a full dealers room, a dance on Saturday night, a variety of guests (authors, actors, artists, comic, behind-the-scenes, etc.) and a HUGE variety in the representation of fandom.
Martin, the schism is not only caused by the disaffected. When people do attempt to make as much fun of the convention as they can, they frequently run afoul of the "establishment." Clubs, groups, and individuals have all expressed to me over the years how unwelcome they have been made to feel at CONduit. A schism can be created by one side, but it cannot be maintained as such.
ReplyDeleteThe creative process that you speak of does not work the same for most attendees as it does for the pro and semi-pro individuals targeted with the offerings. Where are the panels on fan fiction, youtube videos, and blogging? This is the creative process for most fans. I will give them credit for finally embracing podcasts.
When anyone makes a statement like "I do not know a single .... convention goer who would not benefit from..." it smacks of intellectual elitism. I know this was not your intent, but anyone reading it from the outside could see it as such. Intellectual elitism and poo pooing of the interests of other fans has been a complaint against con for years.
I have been involved with CONduit since con 2, holding the role of everything from attendee to department head. I've supported the con through thick and thin. Unfortunately, it has become a situation where the convention gets more out of me than I get out of it. I can not diminish what has already diminished itself.
My goal with this blog was not to discourage others from attending CONduit. My goal was to bring what has been a back room conversation into the front room. I desperately want what was a place of safety for me as a teen to survive and thrive. It won't without open and honest conversation about it's future.
I see your points.. I am not saying that ConDuit is perfect and they have not made mistakes..I am a believer in reconcillation and if the 'establishment' (aka strong personalities) in this area are slow to react then that is their loss. Still I am a firm believer that shisms can be healed or bridged at least partially by one side IF that side keeps trying. You mentioned blogs, youtube videos etc. You come, you can teach them.. you help create.. Conduit grows and attracts a younger group.. You are right in the fact that no 'intellectual elitism' was intended but rather intellectual inclusion. You did bring me into this conversation in partial defense but with a listening ear. I cannot change the past, I can only look to the future and hope that the one group of 'stuborn' establishment can make steps the other group of 'stubborn' establishment cannot. And I might add that I am certain that many of the 'establishment' (of any con) get less out of the con than they put into it, yet they stay with it, like you have, because of the other fans that 'they lead'. I am reaching that point too..at least in the tasks I have chosen to be part of..so I will change things to keep things fresh-er. I am all for open and honest conversation..even if one or the other side is not listening.. but to my mind actions work best.. if nothing else, obtain your objective through kindness...and that goes to both sides. I hope your readers (and my co-concom) take what I say seriously..I do not speak for concom, nor am I authorized to do so but I speak as one, like you, who is involved in ConDuit and who sees all the good it has done and can do. I want a con with a full dealers room (again) and lots of jubalant people..we can do it..if we pool our skills, interests and talents. If ConDuit has 'dimished itself' as you say it has not helped that and handful of the disaffected have done more harm than good just as it has been on the other side.. a few.. have done harm.. but remember how many,even of those few, who are involved in many parts of the other cons and activities on both side and do a lot of good too. I simply want the dialoge to look for ways to build rather than continue to do nothing or tear things down.. Your blog is a good start..I ask your readers to seek ways to build regardless of how long it takes.. we have the foundation Conduit was built upon.. we just need to shore up things, build a bit of superstructure and remove some deadwood/old stuff ON BOTH sides and then the rest will grow and blossom as it has and as it should.
ReplyDeleteErin, et.al.
ReplyDeleteFor the record everyone, I am not a hater. Martin, Rex and Carl all know how much blood, sweat and tears I put into helping rebuild relations between CONduit and the FanClubs... I WAS involved in EVERY CONduit from CONduit 8 - CONduit 20; including seven years of that 12 as a department head or assistant department head (3 with Gaming/4 with Programming) and one year as the "fan-club whipping boy" :-)
That being said, I *and my family* will not be attending CONduit 21. It is the first CONduit that I have missed since my daughter was born.
CONduit has been stricken with a terminal illness for the last three or four years. There was a strong attempt to provide a cure last year, but the illness is just too invasive. I know that Rex (and to a lesser extent, Carl) have been saying this for years... but I think that someone should call the mortician now.
The sure sign that things are over was Tamara walking away from Ops. Tamara held that position for the ENTIRE life of CONduit, but walked away this year due to the politics of ConCom position selection.
Everyone has been dancing around some of the true issues involved... "Organized Utah Fandom" (as represented by the major conventions) has been co-opted by a small group of poisonous fans. It is their way or the highway and they will resort to just about any tactic to hold onto their "power". These people and their cronies are currently running LtUE, CONduit, World Horror Con 2012 (and the 2008 WHC), a World Fantasy Con bid and the Westercon 2014 bid.
They have become the "Official Face" of Organized Utah Fandom and use their influence to undermine attempts to start other conventions that might compete with them, and they have whispered disparaging comments about the existing "competition" e.g. SaltCon, MountainCon, and AnimeBonzai.
This environment is killing organized Utah Fandom and is/has killed CONduit.
I have taken this year off of CONduit and I have been looking for other interests of late... that being said, Erin, I welcome the open discussion.
I would also let everyone know, that if there was sufficient support to "throw the rascals out" I would be among the first in line to help CONduit rise from its ashes.
May I address a couple things that was said earlier by lilalexie.. I am sorry you need more than a PG 13 con to have fun..and as for your list there are plenty of cons like that..but please do not ditz those of us who prefer the PG 13 or less atmosphere..belittling that is not very IDIC supportive..if you ask me. Conduit caters to the 'utah fan' which includes Latter-day Saints and the leaders, even those who are not of that group realize, wisely I think, that they need to tone things down here..So allow it and enjoy it and help build within those 'confines'. You are obviously a thoughtful person and that is great so allow those. like me. who like the 'toned down' version to enjoy it without any real or imagined ridicule 'for our less than worldly beliefs' Still the 'toned down' likers must realize that they are not the only ones..so maybe if we work together?? hmmmm? we can buid/rebuild a great convention group here in Utah that most (and hopefully all) can and will enjoy.
ReplyDeleteActually Martin, I would love a PG-13 con. Ours isn't. It's G rated, very G rated.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am deaf, dumb and blind but I am not sure who these 'rascals' are. I know the names of all the leaders and I am at a loss as ti who you are referring to as 'poisonous fans'..I have not heard disparaging remarks about other cons and events and in fact have seen many of these names working on and for these conventions as well. It is a give and take and your giving your blood, sweat and tears is hard especially when you feel or actually are not getting out of it what you want..I wish I could do something about it and all I can hope that rather than wait for the ashes Utah Fandom revives and rebuilds from within..
ReplyDeleteWell..I guess my definition of PG 13 is different..but I was born in the 50s soooo .. but smile.. it is all for the good to talk like this!!
ReplyDeleteHere's the PG-13 rating system. 1-4 "fucks" is allowed, topless men and women are allowed (which I don't suggest for CONduit... eeewww), dirty jokes humor is allowed, etc.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_of_America_film_rating_system#Rating_process
I don't want the kiddies to be subject to adults only content. I do want our con to move into the current era.
yep..that is accurate by today's standards but I can do without any of those 'naughty words' topless humans and dirty jokes..so I will stay with what you call 'G'. I do not need dirty humor anymore..kind of out grew it and the naughty words are for the less creative as far as I am concerned or for shock value..so I guess that is why I watch so few movies.. I have lived in many eras and they are for the most part similar.. so the current era is not much better if at all and if it depends on such crass and naughty things to get by..maybe that is why I do not go to the other conventions...Again that beautiful word...choice.. I am not shocked by or angered by the things that make things pg 13, R or X etc. I just choose to not use them and if Conduit got too much of that (and I hear those things and adult only stuff all the time) I might choose not to attend...but I would not tell others (as have most of those who are reading or responding to this blog) why or what to do unless asked directly. That is why this conversation is so fine.. we are talking and that, my friend, is a GREAT first step. Let's keep it going...
ReplyDeleteCarl..I am going to get off my soap box now..thank you thank you for getting the ball rolling and allowing my point of view to be posted..that in and of itself says a lot about you. You are a good man and those who have posted here are good people..really good people whether we agree or not..and when a group like this with such diverse points of view can work together.. I think fandom is going to survive just fine..with or without my preferred 'G' rating!
Martin, I set my blog to be open to all to view and comment on. Other than being a source of my income, it's a place for free exchange of ideas and information.
ReplyDeleteGood on ya!
ReplyDeleteThe Future?
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I think is very important to remember with this discussion is that although there seems to be a strong sentiment for change that we should remember that it IS just that. A sentiment for change.
A sentiment for change DOES NOT MEAN
1) That Conduit is bad.
2) That said change will mean forgetting or excluding past principles or participants
3) That those who desire change believe that everything conduit has ever done is wrong
4) That those who have built conduit to what it are somehow wrong or bad people.
I think everyone can agree that CONduit has done some really amazing things and that people who have run it have put a lot of blood sweat, tears, money, time and effort in to building a con that’s lasted 21 years. For that Huzzah! Many cons have shorter life spans so great job and thumbs up for that.
However at the same time, longevity does not eliminate the need for change. In fact it’s more of a reason to insure that it does change so that the longevity can continue. The sentiment for change is strong enough that “branch off” cons have happened, and this blog post as stirred up so far a small group of individuals who .. and I can’t stress this enough.
ENJOY CONDUIT ENOUGH TO HAVE THE DESIRE TO SEE THINGS CHANGE AND TALK ABOUT IT
If we hated CONduit, If we hated the people running it and if we didn’t think there was even a possibility for it to be saved this discussion wouldn’t be happening. If we didn’t love the convention, and if we did not have e hopes for it we all would have quit going years ago and wouldn’t have responded to this blog at all.
What we have here is a simple case of tiredness and stagnation.
So, what do we DO?
ReplyDelete1) Go to this years Con, See if anything has changed take detailed notes and talk to people at the CON
Do a few interviews and find out from both long time veterans to newbies what they WANT get their wishlists
2) Figure out what we want CONduit to be.
LTUE 2.0- aka Literary con OR General SF/Fandom Con. I’ve asked many people this question and I’ve gotten about an equal number of people on both sides so obviously there is some debate on the matter. I would like to point out here that we need to determine what we want CONduit TO BE not what it HAS BEEN or what it SHOULD have been.
If we want change we have to be willing to come to a consensus on a direction and then take steps to
get there. Looking at what it was and doing the same thing or not making a final decision on this gets us nowhere. Once the con’s mission and purpose has been finally determined, we can go forward.
On the same note, just because it WAS one thing last year, doesn’t mean it can’t change Next year.
Nothing is written in stone. - That also means if folks who want change are willing to MAKE change, that they must also be willing to compromise and that the words "this didn't work in the past" should never cross their lips in the new planning. New ideas, new planing, and new processes with new people have to become the order of the day.
3) Get the people who want to see change go to a Con Com meeting En-masse and make their voice heard.
So we care enough to blog, do we care enough to vote and make sure we all go on at the first, second, third, fourth and fifth meetings to actually make votes and propose change? Are we willing to take positions of authority and invest time into that ? Or do we only care enough to talk about it and toss our hands in the air when it doesn’t go our way?
If we actually want to see change happen, a change of procedure, a change of management, a change of format, introduction of media etc and so on we must not only be willing to come to the planning meetings and vote but we must also be willing to follow through with it.
We can’t just say change must happen and then not do anything. We need to make a solid commitment to change the things we don’t like and keep the things we do. This means commitment in time, energy, work, money and finding others with the knowhow to help. This means going to the meetings and taking positions even the ones that suck and are lots of work.
Admittedly this has been an area where I could improve personally as well. I have focused my efforts on my department rather than spending time going to meetings. It may be time to change that as well.
If there was energy and effort being put in by others who feel the same I would be more than happy to put in more. Belive me I know how bad it sucks to be the only one trying to do something and carrying everyone else. But if folks will make a collective commitment to put in renewed effort things can happen and the ball can start rolling.
So, do we want to see this change? or will we walk away from it and let CONduit to it’s eventual fate whatever that is? -
So, what do we DO?
ReplyDelete1) Go to this years Con, See if anything has changed take detailed notes and talk to people at the CON
Do a few interviews and find out from both long time veterans to newbies what they WANT get their wishlists
2) Figure out what we want CONduit to be.
LTUE 2.0- aka Literary con OR General SF/Fandom Con. I’ve asked many people this question and I’ve gotten about an equal number of people on both sides so obviously there is some debate on the matter. I would like to point out here that we need to determine what we want CONduit TO BE not what it HAS BEEN or what it SHOULD have been.
If we want change we have to be willing to come to a consensus on a direction and then take steps to
get there. Looking at what it was and doing the same thing or not making a final decision on this gets us nowhere. Once the con’s mission and purpose has been finally determined, we can go forward.
On the same note, just because it WAS one thing last year, doesn’t mean it can’t change Next year.
Nothing is written in stone. - That also means if folks who want change are willing to MAKE change, that they must also be willing to compromise and that the words "this didn't work in the past" should never cross their lips in the new planning. New ideas, new planing, and new processes with new people have to become the order of the day.
3) Get the people who want to see change go to a Con Com meeting En-masse and make their voice heard.
So we care enough to blog, do we care enough to vote and make sure we all go on at the first, second, third, fourth and fifth meetings to actually make votes and propose change? Are we willing to take positions of authority and invest time into that ? Or do we only care enough to talk about it and toss our hands in the air when it doesn’t go our way?
If we actually want to see change happen, a change of procedure, a change of management, a change of format, introduction of media etc and so on we must not only be willing to come to the planning meetings and vote but we must also be willing to follow through with it.
We can’t just say change must happen and then not do anything. We need to make a solid commitment to change the things we don’t like and keep the things we do. This means commitment in time, energy, work, money and finding others with the knowhow to help. This means going to the meetings and taking positions even the ones that suck and are lots of work.
Admittedly this has been an area where I could improve personally as well. I have focused my efforts on my department rather than spending time going to meetings. It may be time to change that as well.
If there was energy and effort being put in by others who feel the same I would be more than happy to put in more. Belive me I know how bad it sucks to be the only one trying to do something and carrying everyone else. But if folks will make a collective commitment to put in renewed effort things can happen and the ball can start rolling.
So, do we want to see this change? or will we walk away from it and let CONduit to it’s eventual fate whatever that is? -
So, what do we DO?
ReplyDelete1) Go to this years Con, See if anything has changed take detailed notes and talk to people at the CON
Do a few interviews and find out from both long time veterans to newbies what they WANT get their wishlists
2) Figure out what we want CONduit to be.
LTUE 2.0- aka Literary con OR General SF/Fandom Con. I’ve asked many people this question and I’ve gotten about an equal number of people on both sides so obviously there is some debate on the matter. I would like to point out here that we need to determine what we want CONduit TO BE not what it HAS BEEN or what it SHOULD have been.
If we want change we have to be willing to come to a consensus on a direction and then take steps to
get there. Looking at what it was and doing the same thing or not making a final decision on this gets us nowhere. Once the con’s mission and purpose has been finally determined, we can go forward.
On the same note, just because it WAS one thing last year, doesn’t mean it can’t change Next year.
Nothing is written in stone. - That also means if folks who want change are willing to MAKE change, that they must also be willing to compromise and that the words "this didn't work in the past" should never cross their lips in the new planning. New ideas, new planing, and new processes with new people have to become the order of the day.
3) Get the people who want to see change go to a Con Com meeting En-masse and make their voice heard.
So we care enough to blog, do we care enough to vote and make sure we all go on at the first, second, third, fourth and fifth meetings to actually make votes and propose change? Are we willing to take positions of authority and invest time into that ? Or do we only care enough to talk about it and toss our hands in the air when it doesn’t go our way?
If we actually want to see change happen, a change of procedure, a change of management, a change of format, introduction of media etc and so on we must not only be willing to come to the planning meetings and vote but we must also be willing to follow through with it.
We can’t just say change must happen and then not do anything. We need to make a solid commitment to change the things we don’t like and keep the things we do. This means commitment in time, energy, work, money and finding others with the knowhow to help. This means going to the meetings and taking positions even the ones that suck and are lots of work.
Admittedly this has been an area where I could improve personally as well. I have focused my efforts on my department rather than spending time going to meetings. It may be time to change that as well.
If there was energy and effort being put in by others who feel the same I would be more than happy to put in more. Belive me I know how bad it sucks to be the only one trying to do something and carrying everyone else. But if folks will make a collective commitment to put in renewed effort things can happen and the ball can start rolling.
So, do we want to see this change? or will we walk away from it and let CONduit to it’s eventual fate whatever that is? -
Google ate my first post *sigh*.
ReplyDeleteSo I'll cut to the chase, it's not just the stagnation that's the issue. It's the attitudes and professionalism. I and many friends have been hurt and ostracized by the people of Conduit. So we just stopped going. Many of us also stopped going to other SF/F events like LTUE because it was turning into anther Conduit. I'll not pay to be belittled and sneered at by unknowns.
Jody Lee likes my art work and that's good enough for me. I don't need some recent UVSC graduate telling me I'll never make it in the art world.
Anonymous Artist: I'm sorry that you've had that experience. I for one would love to see your work. If you exhibit on the web, I'll link it for others to see.
ReplyDeleteEveryone: No one source can be blamed for the problems. There is stagnation, there is intellectual elitism, there is a tendency towards cliquishness, etc. One of these problems is enough to damage any convention. All of them is staggering. If I decide after this year to continue with the convention, I will actively start working to eliminate the sources of the problems and save the good things that CONduit has been, is and can be.
If I decide to step away from CONduit, I will look into the possibility of alternate local events. If I am involved in the start up (or return) of another convention or event, it won't be as an attack on CONduit. It'll just be there to satisfy the needs within the fan community that aren't being met by CONduit. It also won't be competition. The last thing I want is another con on Memorial Day Weekend. I'll use the holiday weekend to travel.
Change is good and growth is change... staying the same causes change too..but in a negative way. I still enjoy Conduit alot..and I have had my negative moments too which I think that are inevitable with strong personalities but I have chosen to stay with it...stay close and enjoy the process good and bad..and hopefully I have helped the change go in the best direction for UTAH fandom..and not just my own view of what fandom should be...I challenge all who want to change things to get involved..and to be honest those of you I know, I respect and I KNOW you have strong personalities as well.. put them to use..come in off the sidelines and let all of us work toward what a better Conduit for all! I still can imagine a Mountain Con/Conduit/and perhaps 'other group' Hybrid that will thrill the state! (and bring in the recognition and attendance from other places that we, I believe, deserve!
ReplyDeleteI don't want to really complain (most of my problems with Conduit have already been voiced on both sides at this point) but may I make one suggestion? The single largest problem I've had with Conduit is that lack of communication with people who aren't directly involved in the Salt Lake fan groups/clubs or connected to them through peripheral links. I've watched the evolution of Conduit and other SF cons (including the various genres) from afar (mostly since we can't afford the events themselves). 5 years ago, I started trying to communicate with Conduit regarding different things, and have repeatedly attempted for different reasons. Unfortunately, in 5 years of going through the connections and listed contacts I have only ONCE received any reply what so ever to any message that has been sent. And I am talking about messages that are posted on the boards, emails that have been sent directly, etc. If you want other people to get involved, start looking for more effective ways to communicate with them. Otherwise, what is the point of asking for feedback if you are only receiving feedback from the same people that you see at different events? I thought the idea of having a community event as large as Conduit is to have the community at large get involved to the benefit of all? If you want all the clubs to work together, start talking together with respect for the other's ideas (rather than focusing on complaints). When businesses try to contact you regarding your dealer's room, answer them. When someone tries to offer assistance as they are able, listen to what they tell you they are able to do and ask questions about their interests and experience so you will know the best way to challenge them with something they are excited about (you want a die-hard fan and volunteer or not?). With everything I've watched and listened too over the years, the Number One complaint I've heard over and over and over again (for more than 15 years) has been the lack of constructive communication. Focus on your positives and what you can do to help each other and miraculously you will find the stale fog lifting. Focus on your frustrations and what you think will cure them, and you will find that the fog will only continue to grow to choking you...regardless of where you go or what you attempt to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck with what you are all trying to accomplish!
For Heaven's sake, y'all! Come to the CONduit meeting this coming Saturday (6/11/11) and make your voices heard.
ReplyDeleteThere HAVE been votes (which I unfortunately missed) on the GOH and the subtitles. We even take proxies, if we're working as we've done in previous years. If there wasn't sufficient publicity on those, then there needs to be.
As for a writing con: I heard one or two panelists who simply assumed anybody (or most of those) there wanted to be a writer. Me, I've always held--and still do--that any writing panel is also a reading panel.
And I knew the minute I saw the complaint about the mass walkout from the concert that it would turn out to be a volume issue. There's a claim made, intended as an insult, that "If it's too loud, you're too old." Maybe. But at age 20, I listened happily to Def Leppard or some such band from the hallway because I couldn't stand being in the auditorium.
To be honest coming to conduit has been a slap in the face for the none author, 'click' or member of the board. Getting asked 'didn't you shut your live show down?' umm no we didn't you all did that to us through your own ignorance.
ReplyDeleteThe community in Utah and the inter mountain west has so many good people, yet at the same time very arrogant people. There is no need to correct people in email with bad grammar or spelling we all are human, not robots or a sci-fi nerd that must have everything correct.
Coming to the meetings is not the answer, paying money for big names it not the answer. Creating a community that welcomes everyone is the answer.
I feel I have no voice as many of my friends, and family feel if they speak out they get invited to not come back. This is not only a problem with conduit but Utahans in general, and a insult to the great state we have. The 'everyone is invited but you attitude.' I'm not saying this has happen to me but has happened to my extended family.
The underlining issue is two fold as I see it. We have a great con, but we lack people skills. Two it feels like the same con every year.
on a side note I was asked to be involved with community theater last year which I declined due to the 'Utahn Attitudes'. yes my decision to do so, however this is many a reason why the numbers drop at cons in Utah and why some cons have not continued..
@jeffnorris @iscifitv
Writers write - Ken Rand.
I think CONduit fell apart years ago, about the time it left the airport Hilton. And I completely stopped going four or five years ago because it was just a waste of my time and money. It's unfortunate given the lack of conventions in the area.
ReplyDeleteMy friends and I are largely in agreement that CONduit fell apart when the Star Trek and other such clubs backed out—which was about the time the convention left the Hilton. It was all downhill from there.
ReplyDeleteBTW, none of us go to CONduit anymore.
Anonymous: I have been hearing exactly what you've just said for years from various sources. Other than the 14 page list of concerns from the clubs, it has never been publicly addressed in such a way for the entirety of Utah's fandom to contribute. I posted these comments rants originally for myself and have since turned them over to the rest of the fen to help foster the disussion. Please help rebuild what should be a convention for and by ALL of the fans, not just a stagnant minority.
ReplyDelete